Got kids?
A lot of poly people do. Tons of them do and it’s a tricky subject to maneuver around.
When do the OSO’s meet the kids?
Do you ever tell the kids the extent of the relationship?
Do you let the OSO live with the kids?
How much authority does the OSO have over the kids?
Ummmm……there are no guidelines on this. I tried to think about it and you can’t determine exactly what to do because there are so many factors.
Environmental…who do you live with? How do you live?
If it’s been Mommy and Daddy the whole time and there’s suddenly a new person it’s more difficult than for the Mommy and Daddy who’ve had room or housemates for most of the kid’s lives.
How social are you? If friends are in and out of the house, one more friend is no big deal. If you’re quiet and more reserved, the new person is going to bring up a brow from the children.
Dynamics…what kind of relationship do you have with…everyone?
Are you close to your kids and they know practically everything? Or are they kept in the dark? (Or what you think is the dark because kids are incredibly perceptive?)
The new OSO, is it a typical romantic relationship? Or is a D/s one? Is there kink involved or not? I mention this because those in an M/f or F/m (etc.) type of relationship will give off the vibe of it even when they are not engaging in the activity. It’s just the dynamic and if it’s different from the dynamic you have with the primary, it’ll show up. If not, it might not.
Also, NRE is striking. If you have it, the energy sears and everyone notices it whether you or they realize it or not.
The Kids themselves…each are different.
Some kids can handle anything, know everything and nothing is a surprise. You not saying anything is a formality. They know and it’s probably better just to be honest.
Other kids, may not notice a thing. They may still be in their highly egocentric stage and your world is trivial compared to theirs.
Also, some kids may be mature enough to handle it, some may not be. You may have one of each and decide not to bring it up or to only bring it up to one. It really depends on you and what you think is right. You are the one who knows you’re children and what they can and cannot handle. I sure as hell don’t.
But, the one guideline I would give is to make sure that the person is sticking around. I have a sense that the younger a child will cling more to OSO’s. It’s not fair to bring in a relationship, allow one to be built between your child and them and then break it away out of nowhere.
No, you can never be sure that a relationship will last. However, if you allow a person to become a parental figure of any kind I hope that you’re plan is for that person to stay. If it’s not…..it may be too rough on the child.
Of course, it all depends, but I have a friend who got involved with a woman. He spent a year and half with her, met her kid, fell in love with the kid and that kid with him. 18 months later, she broke up with him out of the blue. This will have been the third time this 8 year old has gone through this. How will this pattern affect the child?
Well, you can argue that it will affect this particular child more because in this string of monogamy the child only has mommy and in a poly relationship the child would have both mommy and daddy, however….loss is loss. It will affect them somehow. It may be mild it may be not. Who knows?
My sister’s cat died recently. Child one was devastated. Child two was okay with it after a week of grief, two different reactions to the same event of losing a loving, family pet. I hope relationships with the OSO’s are just as strong if not stronger than your relationship with your pets.
And I hope you don’t underestimate your children’s emotional attachment to the adults you bring into your life. I also hope that you understand that being poly is a big deal. You are not just adding a lover, but a friend, a sister, an uncle, an aunt, a myriad of possibilities as this person interacts with people in your lives. Do it justice and treat it with the same reality you did when you met your husband or wife and don’t make the mistake of thinking it’s anything less. To do otherwise is treating Polyamory like a game, not like the lifestyle and commitment is it.
Friday, January 21, 2011
Wednesday, December 22, 2010
Fidelity and Doing Whatcha' Don't Wanna.
Poly-Fidelity….does there really need to be a separate term for this?
I’ve used it before to designate that my Poly Circle is closed and isn’t a string of casual relationships and to underscore we’re not Swingers. However….when I think about it, why do I have to point that out at all?
Well, one reason is that POLYAMORY means…..so many damned things. Your definition may be different from mine. You may put Swingers into the Poly category or you may not. You may say that having the occasional threesome is Poly and well….you get the picture, right? There is no ONE WAY to be Poly so one might feel the need to clarify, especially when asking someone to join in their style of poly.
Another reason, the assumption by many is that Polyamory doesn’t include fidelity. There’s this idea that once you allow one person in, you’ll allow just about anyone who suits your fancy in. That’s true for some, but not for all. So, again one might find the need to clarify, especially when talking to someone who is clueless as to what Poly may or may not be.
So there are reasons to have the term, but…I don’t like it. I don’t like feeling compelled to have to defend anything, especially from possible accusation. However, on the Nets if you don’t toss out something, there is always some dumbass ready to start trouble by projecting their own experience onto you. This can start discussion or hamper it depending on how anal or trollish the person is. So, gain….reasons, reasons, reasons…
Which kind of brings me to a point, sometimes we have to do what we don’t want to do or feel we need to do because in the end it’s easier to do it rather than not.
What could those things be…..Hmmm?
1) Calling to ask if you can go out to dinner when out with the OSO.
If you’re out and it’s your time, it’s your time right? I’ve had to do this in the past and didn’t like it, but then there was an occasion where I made dinner and didn’t like that when he got home, he’d already eaten. I would have liked a call….not exactly so I could give permission for them to eat out, but so that I would have known and saved my time cooking a meal for three.
2) Checking In.
I know of a couple where one has to check in when they are visiting their OSO. They have to call at some point in the night and say “I’m alive.” or something along those lines. They did not like this, but it made the wife feel better and after a while she stopped asking him to do it.
If he had argued over this, I think it would have caused more insecurity than needed. So, much easier to do it than not, right?
Now these tend to be from a “Primary to Primary” point of view. This is where the “Secondary” can sometimes get shafted. We all have a lot of concern for the Primaries feelings because they are the ones letting someone into their sacred monogamous relationship potentially destroying it by making the wrong choices…yada, yada, yada….Let’s not forget the sacrifice of the Secondary…
● No Primary relationship to show off to friends and family.
● The concept that he/she is in fact Secondary in the first place.
● The lack of automatic protections in case of a married couple.
● The hardship of being the one constantly scrutinized and being put threw approval processes by TWO (or more) people in order to have a relationship.
● Living under the fear of the dreaded VETO.
That’s only to name a few. Let’s not forget that however much restless insecurity is running around the Primary Mind, the Secondary is going through just as much of it. DO NOT FUCK IT UP, by being selfish in this category. Your lack of understanding will cause problems as the relationship progresses.
So…turn those two examples around and put the Secondary as the one who is concerned. The same issues can happen. Maybe you shouldn’t eat before going over because the Secondary is making dinner for you….Maybe you should call a few extra times when you’ll be away from the Secondary, a check in to remind them that they are in fact in your thoughts.
And while we brought up the word “Fidelity” let’s also remember it can mean “ strict observance of promises, duties, etc.” not just “loyalty”. You can apply Fidelty to all those things you might not think is important because maybe they are important in the bigger picture. And adhering to them will make things run smoothly and quite frankly in a healthy relationship, all the STRICT, seemingly STUPID RULES tend to wane in importance to all involved and there’s more of a relaxed atmosphere.
That’s the goal, I think…comfort in Polyamory, when words, and concepts are just that and you’re following your heart, happy with your relationships. It takes time, it takes practice, it initially takes a lot of defining before it is self-defined and has no need for anyone to nit-pick.
Ahhhh, feels good like two plop, plop, fizz, fizzes……oh yeah, never forget to continue to COMMUNICATE. Yay, I got it in!!!
I’ve used it before to designate that my Poly Circle is closed and isn’t a string of casual relationships and to underscore we’re not Swingers. However….when I think about it, why do I have to point that out at all?
Well, one reason is that POLYAMORY means…..so many damned things. Your definition may be different from mine. You may put Swingers into the Poly category or you may not. You may say that having the occasional threesome is Poly and well….you get the picture, right? There is no ONE WAY to be Poly so one might feel the need to clarify, especially when asking someone to join in their style of poly.
Another reason, the assumption by many is that Polyamory doesn’t include fidelity. There’s this idea that once you allow one person in, you’ll allow just about anyone who suits your fancy in. That’s true for some, but not for all. So, again one might find the need to clarify, especially when talking to someone who is clueless as to what Poly may or may not be.
So there are reasons to have the term, but…I don’t like it. I don’t like feeling compelled to have to defend anything, especially from possible accusation. However, on the Nets if you don’t toss out something, there is always some dumbass ready to start trouble by projecting their own experience onto you. This can start discussion or hamper it depending on how anal or trollish the person is. So, gain….reasons, reasons, reasons…
Which kind of brings me to a point, sometimes we have to do what we don’t want to do or feel we need to do because in the end it’s easier to do it rather than not.
What could those things be…..Hmmm?
1) Calling to ask if you can go out to dinner when out with the OSO.
If you’re out and it’s your time, it’s your time right? I’ve had to do this in the past and didn’t like it, but then there was an occasion where I made dinner and didn’t like that when he got home, he’d already eaten. I would have liked a call….not exactly so I could give permission for them to eat out, but so that I would have known and saved my time cooking a meal for three.
2) Checking In.
I know of a couple where one has to check in when they are visiting their OSO. They have to call at some point in the night and say “I’m alive.” or something along those lines. They did not like this, but it made the wife feel better and after a while she stopped asking him to do it.
If he had argued over this, I think it would have caused more insecurity than needed. So, much easier to do it than not, right?
Now these tend to be from a “Primary to Primary” point of view. This is where the “Secondary” can sometimes get shafted. We all have a lot of concern for the Primaries feelings because they are the ones letting someone into their sacred monogamous relationship potentially destroying it by making the wrong choices…yada, yada, yada….Let’s not forget the sacrifice of the Secondary…
● No Primary relationship to show off to friends and family.
● The concept that he/she is in fact Secondary in the first place.
● The lack of automatic protections in case of a married couple.
● The hardship of being the one constantly scrutinized and being put threw approval processes by TWO (or more) people in order to have a relationship.
● Living under the fear of the dreaded VETO.
That’s only to name a few. Let’s not forget that however much restless insecurity is running around the Primary Mind, the Secondary is going through just as much of it. DO NOT FUCK IT UP, by being selfish in this category. Your lack of understanding will cause problems as the relationship progresses.
So…turn those two examples around and put the Secondary as the one who is concerned. The same issues can happen. Maybe you shouldn’t eat before going over because the Secondary is making dinner for you….Maybe you should call a few extra times when you’ll be away from the Secondary, a check in to remind them that they are in fact in your thoughts.
And while we brought up the word “Fidelity” let’s also remember it can mean “ strict observance of promises, duties, etc.” not just “loyalty”. You can apply Fidelty to all those things you might not think is important because maybe they are important in the bigger picture. And adhering to them will make things run smoothly and quite frankly in a healthy relationship, all the STRICT, seemingly STUPID RULES tend to wane in importance to all involved and there’s more of a relaxed atmosphere.
That’s the goal, I think…comfort in Polyamory, when words, and concepts are just that and you’re following your heart, happy with your relationships. It takes time, it takes practice, it initially takes a lot of defining before it is self-defined and has no need for anyone to nit-pick.
Ahhhh, feels good like two plop, plop, fizz, fizzes……oh yeah, never forget to continue to COMMUNICATE. Yay, I got it in!!!
Thursday, May 27, 2010
Be Ready
They’re staying in.
Your lover is in the living room spending some time with his girl. You know they are; it’s no surprise. You understand they want some alone time, but the house is only so big. You’re in a shared room, feeling lost, maybe locked up and put away. It’s not your turn and you don’t like it…
Totally not uncommon.
Some people seem to think that being poly means you don’t ever feel jealous or set aside. Some poly folk think they are somehow more open, more confident and living at a higher level of spirituality because they can love many.
We all love many. Not every one fucks many. ( setting aside the intricacies of love)
Polyamory is not better than Monogamy. They are simply two different lifestyles and each of us chooses what suits us best. Sometimes we even fall into them.
Fall into Monogamy?
You can be poly then stop. You broke up with someone. He broke up with someone whatever happened happened and you find yourself a two person relationship and living monogamous even if you aren’t monogamous.
Anyway, that’s an aside. Let me try to travel back to what I was getting at. Oh yeah, not being perfect in Polyamory.
First, if I can add a first way the hell down here….First, know that there is no perfection in Polyamory. There is rarely perfection anywhere. So why do you think it exists here?
Don’t let ANYONE tell you otherwise.
I know there are people out there who will tell you to stuff your feelings away because they don’t want to deal with it. I’ve seen it happen a lot in the BDSM conclave, for instance. A master will tell a submissive that they just have to deal with it.
Uh, wrong idea.
Deal with it. NOW, not later, not when one of you is crying their eyes out, certainly not when they end up leaving the relationship.
Hmm, I guess in some cases no one cares or getting the person to leave was the intention. It happens intentionally as well as accidentally. Unfortunately, not all relationships are created equally in the honesty department.
I don't know...maybe my concept of poly is very Pollyanna. I have this concept that you find people, get to know them, bring them in, treat them with respect, keep them happy, they keep you happy, you communicate and life is good because you make it good.
I guess in that sense there is some kind of perfection. When all the bad is outweighed by the all of the good.
So, you’re imperfect. I’m imperfect. (Yeah, I know. I barely believe it, either.)
We get jealous. We feel envy. We want more than what we got. We sometimes think life is unfair. We pout. We get hurt, etc.
Sometimes we are even surprised that we feel these things because 10 minutes ago we were fine.
Never think you know exactly what’s going to set you off. Don’t think just because it was fine last week means it’s perfectly fine this week.
I know you think I’m talking about PMS. But no guys, I’m talking to you to.
Our perceptions are molded by environment.
Last week I got a promotion. I lost five pounds. My friend finally paid me back. I found the Million Dollar Man on Nick at Night. I had a fucking awesome week!!!! I was totally cool with everything everyone else wanted!!!
This week? I got a flat tire. That check I got from my friend? It got shredded in the wash and I know the cheap bastard won't put pen to paper like that again. The Million Dollar Man was only on for only that one night and I don’t have enough cash to pay the bills.
Suddenly that thing I was okay with last week seems a little much. I don’t want you going to another movie with him two weeks in a row….I need you here and I can’t handle the thought you want to go.
You get what I’m saying right? Maybe you don’t even know why you’re pissy about things. You just know you are. Feelings can take you by surprise not just for everyone around you, but for you, too.
So be prepared for it. I know you can't be prepared for any specific instance, but you can roll the concept around and be ready to deal when shit falls in your lap.
Hmm, maybe I should work on the feces references...
Okay, so far this talks about reacting to things and coming to the realization that you can’t always control your feelings. No one should live in fear of them, but everyone needs to understand that emotions are dynamic, even feelings about the same fucking thing.
So, we know that. How do we deal with it?
Let’s see.
I’m alone in the room and you are out in the living room with your lover. I don’t want it. I’m antsy about it, but I promised it and the two of you don’t want to give up the time because this is really the only time you’ll have in a while.
Solved.
The circumstance dictates I deal with it. If their scheduled allowed more occasions, maybe this time they give it up and I get my way. But that’s not the case. I give up what I want.
Is that fair?
You may not see it as fair in this particular situation. You may handle it differently. As long as all agree, you can do whatever. Overall though, I may have gotten my way many, many times and I can’t always have my way. Tough fact for some, but true.
You know there is something that can be done to ease things on me.
I have a kinky friend who sets a timer. Her hubby agrees that he will scene for only X amount of time. He sets the time to go off a few minutes before so he doesn’t go over that time. Basically in my scenario I can say you can have your alone time, but can it be only for X amount of time.
Hey, that might be compromise. What about that? Sheeee-it. Compromise?
That is entirely too awesome.
However, there won’t always be compromise. Sometimes you might have to bite the bullet, but that’s okay and that’s probably the hardest parts of Polyamory:
Sharing when you don’t really want to...
Giving when you don't want to...
Setting aside your needs when you feel you really can't.
It's hard. Don't beat yourself up if you falter. Recognize that you may not be capable of perfect Polyamory. Be ready to think of how you can deal with it. Think of compromises. Think of the overall big picture. Be prepared, be on mental standby, do your damnedest to deal with the situation, even when it hurts.
Sometimes you have to take one for the team. If all is well, they'll do the same for you and you'll find yourself in the circle of love you hoped Polyamory was defined by.
© 2010
Your lover is in the living room spending some time with his girl. You know they are; it’s no surprise. You understand they want some alone time, but the house is only so big. You’re in a shared room, feeling lost, maybe locked up and put away. It’s not your turn and you don’t like it…
Totally not uncommon.
Some people seem to think that being poly means you don’t ever feel jealous or set aside. Some poly folk think they are somehow more open, more confident and living at a higher level of spirituality because they can love many.
We all love many. Not every one fucks many. ( setting aside the intricacies of love)
Polyamory is not better than Monogamy. They are simply two different lifestyles and each of us chooses what suits us best. Sometimes we even fall into them.
Fall into Monogamy?
You can be poly then stop. You broke up with someone. He broke up with someone whatever happened happened and you find yourself a two person relationship and living monogamous even if you aren’t monogamous.
Anyway, that’s an aside. Let me try to travel back to what I was getting at. Oh yeah, not being perfect in Polyamory.
First, if I can add a first way the hell down here….First, know that there is no perfection in Polyamory. There is rarely perfection anywhere. So why do you think it exists here?
Don’t let ANYONE tell you otherwise.
I know there are people out there who will tell you to stuff your feelings away because they don’t want to deal with it. I’ve seen it happen a lot in the BDSM conclave, for instance. A master will tell a submissive that they just have to deal with it.
Uh, wrong idea.
Deal with it. NOW, not later, not when one of you is crying their eyes out, certainly not when they end up leaving the relationship.
Hmm, I guess in some cases no one cares or getting the person to leave was the intention. It happens intentionally as well as accidentally. Unfortunately, not all relationships are created equally in the honesty department.
I don't know...maybe my concept of poly is very Pollyanna. I have this concept that you find people, get to know them, bring them in, treat them with respect, keep them happy, they keep you happy, you communicate and life is good because you make it good.
I guess in that sense there is some kind of perfection. When all the bad is outweighed by the all of the good.
So, you’re imperfect. I’m imperfect. (Yeah, I know. I barely believe it, either.)
We get jealous. We feel envy. We want more than what we got. We sometimes think life is unfair. We pout. We get hurt, etc.
Sometimes we are even surprised that we feel these things because 10 minutes ago we were fine.
Never think you know exactly what’s going to set you off. Don’t think just because it was fine last week means it’s perfectly fine this week.
I know you think I’m talking about PMS. But no guys, I’m talking to you to.
Our perceptions are molded by environment.
Last week I got a promotion. I lost five pounds. My friend finally paid me back. I found the Million Dollar Man on Nick at Night. I had a fucking awesome week!!!! I was totally cool with everything everyone else wanted!!!
This week? I got a flat tire. That check I got from my friend? It got shredded in the wash and I know the cheap bastard won't put pen to paper like that again. The Million Dollar Man was only on for only that one night and I don’t have enough cash to pay the bills.
Suddenly that thing I was okay with last week seems a little much. I don’t want you going to another movie with him two weeks in a row….I need you here and I can’t handle the thought you want to go.
You get what I’m saying right? Maybe you don’t even know why you’re pissy about things. You just know you are. Feelings can take you by surprise not just for everyone around you, but for you, too.
So be prepared for it. I know you can't be prepared for any specific instance, but you can roll the concept around and be ready to deal when shit falls in your lap.
Hmm, maybe I should work on the feces references...
Okay, so far this talks about reacting to things and coming to the realization that you can’t always control your feelings. No one should live in fear of them, but everyone needs to understand that emotions are dynamic, even feelings about the same fucking thing.
So, we know that. How do we deal with it?
Let’s see.
I’m alone in the room and you are out in the living room with your lover. I don’t want it. I’m antsy about it, but I promised it and the two of you don’t want to give up the time because this is really the only time you’ll have in a while.
Solved.
The circumstance dictates I deal with it. If their scheduled allowed more occasions, maybe this time they give it up and I get my way. But that’s not the case. I give up what I want.
Is that fair?
You may not see it as fair in this particular situation. You may handle it differently. As long as all agree, you can do whatever. Overall though, I may have gotten my way many, many times and I can’t always have my way. Tough fact for some, but true.
You know there is something that can be done to ease things on me.
I have a kinky friend who sets a timer. Her hubby agrees that he will scene for only X amount of time. He sets the time to go off a few minutes before so he doesn’t go over that time. Basically in my scenario I can say you can have your alone time, but can it be only for X amount of time.
Hey, that might be compromise. What about that? Sheeee-it. Compromise?
That is entirely too awesome.
However, there won’t always be compromise. Sometimes you might have to bite the bullet, but that’s okay and that’s probably the hardest parts of Polyamory:
Sharing when you don’t really want to...
Giving when you don't want to...
Setting aside your needs when you feel you really can't.
It's hard. Don't beat yourself up if you falter. Recognize that you may not be capable of perfect Polyamory. Be ready to think of how you can deal with it. Think of compromises. Think of the overall big picture. Be prepared, be on mental standby, do your damnedest to deal with the situation, even when it hurts.
Sometimes you have to take one for the team. If all is well, they'll do the same for you and you'll find yourself in the circle of love you hoped Polyamory was defined by.
© 2010
Wednesday, May 26, 2010
You Know
Is one poly dynamic better than another one? Hard to say, but I guess I should word it differently. Is one poly configuration easier than another?
One to one is mathematically easier. We all know that: not better, but easier. What about the threesome?
I suppose this depends. Are we talking a “V” or a triad?
The V seems kind of hard. There is always one left out with nothing to do. The triad seems like there would only be someone left out some of the time but not all of the time. Both may be a problem, actually it all depends.
Depends on....?
How needy everyone is. Do you know how high maintenance you are? You should find out. The best way to do it is to ask those around you. Be prepared if you want honest answers. You may not always realize how much it takes to keep you happy.
I never realized it, but I was always around people who had the energy to expend and didn't mind. It wasn't until I met someone who didn't have the same levels that I found out that yes, indeed, I am high maintenance.
Wait... does this mean I've always been high maintenance or just for this one person?
Do you see where I'm going with all of this? You do, but not all of you know it yet.
Okay, here goes... poly mathematical equations: While what's easier than this or that, or how much maintenance are all important parts of the equation, they aren't the key to it. The key is who you are and who your lover(s) are.
I am high maintenance to one person, but not to another. So what does that mean? It means you have to pay attention to your partners and really get to know them, and communicate as best you can, to make any of your poly choices work. You want a string of lovers, fine. You want a triad, an N, a V, a hexagon, a circle, a beating down of every paradigm that ever was, then do it. Just know who you are doing it with.
See, I told you that you already knew what I was talking about.
So, what's better? What's easier? Like I always say, it depends. It depends on you.
One to one is mathematically easier. We all know that: not better, but easier. What about the threesome?
I suppose this depends. Are we talking a “V” or a triad?
The V seems kind of hard. There is always one left out with nothing to do. The triad seems like there would only be someone left out some of the time but not all of the time. Both may be a problem, actually it all depends.
Depends on....?
How needy everyone is. Do you know how high maintenance you are? You should find out. The best way to do it is to ask those around you. Be prepared if you want honest answers. You may not always realize how much it takes to keep you happy.
I never realized it, but I was always around people who had the energy to expend and didn't mind. It wasn't until I met someone who didn't have the same levels that I found out that yes, indeed, I am high maintenance.
Wait... does this mean I've always been high maintenance or just for this one person?
Do you see where I'm going with all of this? You do, but not all of you know it yet.
Okay, here goes... poly mathematical equations: While what's easier than this or that, or how much maintenance are all important parts of the equation, they aren't the key to it. The key is who you are and who your lover(s) are.
I am high maintenance to one person, but not to another. So what does that mean? It means you have to pay attention to your partners and really get to know them, and communicate as best you can, to make any of your poly choices work. You want a string of lovers, fine. You want a triad, an N, a V, a hexagon, a circle, a beating down of every paradigm that ever was, then do it. Just know who you are doing it with.
See, I told you that you already knew what I was talking about.
So, what's better? What's easier? Like I always say, it depends. It depends on you.
Monday, December 28, 2009
Taking Responsibility
Hello everyone,
It’s been a while. Life has been hitting hard these days with many, many changes and a few terrible illnesses hitting the family. We will survive it.
Anyway, below is my entry. Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR and hopefully your Christmas’s gave you a moments of happiness.
More than one…
That’s the basis for polyamory right? Right? This means polyamory is a group dynamic correct? This means in order for it to work you have to be a part of the group or at least allow yourself to be open enough to communicate needs, desires, and hurts. Right?
This also means that your actions mean something. Right?
I guess I can stop adding “right?” to everything and just get to the fucking point.
You have to allow yourself to be apart of a group dynamic if you are going to be poly even if your intention is only to have intimate sexual relations with just one person in the group.
You have to take responsibility for your actions at all times. You can’t assume that what you say or do has no repercussions to the group. You cannot pretend “it’s their problem” and walk away from what you have done.
You have to communicate. Period. If you cannot do this you cannot build the trust needed to make polyamory work. PERIOD.
If you cannot do these things then you need to get the fuck out. PERIOD.
So let’s take a look at things:
What does it mean being a part of a group? Basically it means that you interact with everyone in the group, consider their feelings and make a conscious effort to keep the machine, the group, moving in the direction of the common goal, happiness.
This is such a broad concept with so many details that we tend to skip over them because like I said, it’s a broad concept. But don’t let that stop you from trying to figure things out.
One of the things everyone in a poly relationship should be doing is figuring out what drives the machine, what interactions are required and what keeps everyone happy most of the time.
This basically means you have to get to know everyone in the group on a one on one basis. Everyone should have a minimal comradely relationship. You don’t need to fuck, but you need to like each other beyond tolerance.
If you are just “tolerating” anyone in the group, shit is going to fly and you’re never going to know in what direction.
The ideal in a poly dynamic is a sense of family, being on the same team, of everyone having your back, standing by your side, basically everyone should be able to trust the entire group.
Levels of trust will differ depending on the type of interaction, lovers, friends and the level of need required by each individual. You may need tons of proof for trust. Another member may need nothing more than your word. (Neither is more noble than the other.)
How do you get trust? Well hell, you know the answer to that.
Honest Communication.
Communication is always the answer and if you can’t dive into the sense of group enough to give that then things are doomed.
Okay so taking responsibility for your actions and words….
I’ve talked about this one before. Basically most, if not everything, you do or say in the group means something to someone. And if those things are taken wrong, it doesn’t absolve you from having done them. Does it make you a prick or a bitch? Depends.
Sometimes we say thoughtless things.
“She looked better yesterday.”
Is this necessarily a bad statement?
No, it’s not. It might mean she looks good today, but not as good as she did yesterday. Someone might see the meaning as “ She looks bad today.”
Something like that is in the ear of the listener. One can explain what they mean and it never be heard. The original speaker just needs to apologize even if they didn’t mean harm. It doesn’t cost anyone anything and everyone can move on.
That’s taking responsibility for the group dynamic and allowing it to function beyond personal pride. Every one in the group should be doing this.
Now if that statement was made with a snide tone an apology is needed. Things may have to be discussed further depending on the matter and also the frequency of such tonalities.
Tone means everything and if a speaker is consistent in offensive tones the speaker needs to change the habit even if they don’t mean it. Why?
For one, offensive tones can cause trouble. It can make a neutral statement sound combative. This would require constant explanation and apology by the speaker. Over time, the explanations and apologies would mean nothing because repeat apologies now sound like bullshit. It now sounds like the speaker intends insult.
Repeat offenses, even if unintentional, stop being unintentional.
It now becomes thoughtless and negligent regardless of what the speaker thinks. For the speaker to continuously state “it’s their problem” is a clear statement to everyone in the group:
The speaker does not care enough to change an offensive habit and does not care about group stability. The speaker is more concerned about themselves because a repetition of this action WILL cause resentment. Resentment causes the dynamic to lose focus from its common goal,
HAPPINESS.
If the speaker can’t drop the ego on the matter or continues not to see that they are now the problem then that person can kiss their involvement in the group goodbye or in some cases, the entire group will dissolve. Basically, bye bye love fest.
So what needs to happen? Well, it all revolves around the dreaded word “Communication”.
I think people forget that communication is a complicated thing. They forget it’s not just hearing the words, but understanding the words and going beyond understanding and taking action.
“You hurt me because (XXXXXX)”
“Ok, I’m sorry.”
Communication?
Maybe.
“You hurt me again because (XXXXXX).”
“Ok, I’m sorry.”
Communication?
Maybe.
“You hurt….” You get the idea right?
Either A, communication hasn’t occurred or B, the person doing the hurting doesn’t give a fuck. If they don’t give a fuck, we need to find out why and work that kink out. Is it a communication problem or something else? Is this retaliation from some pervious incident?
In ANY scenario, people need to talk. They need to express pain, hurt, reasons, etc. Everyone one needs to be heard. Everyone needs the catharsis. EVERYONE needs to be ready to dish it and take it.
It sucks ass sometimes, but it’s needed. If the group cannot withstand effective communication then it’s not strong enough to bare the weight of itself. Essentially, it will fail and people will get hurt.
If two people, lovers, friends, family cannot talk to each other, listen to each other and hear the good as well as the bad then they aren’t what they think they are. Lovers listen and take it. Friends fight and come back to each other. Family stands by you no matter what.
This doesn’t mean you get to shit on people. It doesn’t mean “It’s their problem and if they turn their backs on me then they don’t love me.”
What it means is that everyone, EVERYONE, has to take responsibility for what they say and do. They have to modify their behavior if that behavior consistently causes pain or stress to one or more of the group. If they don’t that person isn’t a part of the group and doesn’t have the group in mind. They only have themselves and if this is the case then they need to drop out.
(And remember, polyamory is a group of one on one interactions interplaying with one of two, two on one, three on one, etc, etc. In the end it’s the group, but you are a piece of the group.)
It’s been a while. Life has been hitting hard these days with many, many changes and a few terrible illnesses hitting the family. We will survive it.
Anyway, below is my entry. Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR and hopefully your Christmas’s gave you a moments of happiness.
More than one…
That’s the basis for polyamory right? Right? This means polyamory is a group dynamic correct? This means in order for it to work you have to be a part of the group or at least allow yourself to be open enough to communicate needs, desires, and hurts. Right?
This also means that your actions mean something. Right?
I guess I can stop adding “right?” to everything and just get to the fucking point.
You have to allow yourself to be apart of a group dynamic if you are going to be poly even if your intention is only to have intimate sexual relations with just one person in the group.
You have to take responsibility for your actions at all times. You can’t assume that what you say or do has no repercussions to the group. You cannot pretend “it’s their problem” and walk away from what you have done.
You have to communicate. Period. If you cannot do this you cannot build the trust needed to make polyamory work. PERIOD.
If you cannot do these things then you need to get the fuck out. PERIOD.
So let’s take a look at things:
What does it mean being a part of a group? Basically it means that you interact with everyone in the group, consider their feelings and make a conscious effort to keep the machine, the group, moving in the direction of the common goal, happiness.
This is such a broad concept with so many details that we tend to skip over them because like I said, it’s a broad concept. But don’t let that stop you from trying to figure things out.
One of the things everyone in a poly relationship should be doing is figuring out what drives the machine, what interactions are required and what keeps everyone happy most of the time.
This basically means you have to get to know everyone in the group on a one on one basis. Everyone should have a minimal comradely relationship. You don’t need to fuck, but you need to like each other beyond tolerance.
If you are just “tolerating” anyone in the group, shit is going to fly and you’re never going to know in what direction.
The ideal in a poly dynamic is a sense of family, being on the same team, of everyone having your back, standing by your side, basically everyone should be able to trust the entire group.
Levels of trust will differ depending on the type of interaction, lovers, friends and the level of need required by each individual. You may need tons of proof for trust. Another member may need nothing more than your word. (Neither is more noble than the other.)
How do you get trust? Well hell, you know the answer to that.
Honest Communication.
Communication is always the answer and if you can’t dive into the sense of group enough to give that then things are doomed.
Okay so taking responsibility for your actions and words….
I’ve talked about this one before. Basically most, if not everything, you do or say in the group means something to someone. And if those things are taken wrong, it doesn’t absolve you from having done them. Does it make you a prick or a bitch? Depends.
Sometimes we say thoughtless things.
“She looked better yesterday.”
Is this necessarily a bad statement?
No, it’s not. It might mean she looks good today, but not as good as she did yesterday. Someone might see the meaning as “ She looks bad today.”
Something like that is in the ear of the listener. One can explain what they mean and it never be heard. The original speaker just needs to apologize even if they didn’t mean harm. It doesn’t cost anyone anything and everyone can move on.
That’s taking responsibility for the group dynamic and allowing it to function beyond personal pride. Every one in the group should be doing this.
Now if that statement was made with a snide tone an apology is needed. Things may have to be discussed further depending on the matter and also the frequency of such tonalities.
Tone means everything and if a speaker is consistent in offensive tones the speaker needs to change the habit even if they don’t mean it. Why?
For one, offensive tones can cause trouble. It can make a neutral statement sound combative. This would require constant explanation and apology by the speaker. Over time, the explanations and apologies would mean nothing because repeat apologies now sound like bullshit. It now sounds like the speaker intends insult.
Repeat offenses, even if unintentional, stop being unintentional.
It now becomes thoughtless and negligent regardless of what the speaker thinks. For the speaker to continuously state “it’s their problem” is a clear statement to everyone in the group:
The speaker does not care enough to change an offensive habit and does not care about group stability. The speaker is more concerned about themselves because a repetition of this action WILL cause resentment. Resentment causes the dynamic to lose focus from its common goal,
HAPPINESS.
If the speaker can’t drop the ego on the matter or continues not to see that they are now the problem then that person can kiss their involvement in the group goodbye or in some cases, the entire group will dissolve. Basically, bye bye love fest.
So what needs to happen? Well, it all revolves around the dreaded word “Communication”.
I think people forget that communication is a complicated thing. They forget it’s not just hearing the words, but understanding the words and going beyond understanding and taking action.
“You hurt me because (XXXXXX)”
“Ok, I’m sorry.”
Communication?
Maybe.
“You hurt me again because (XXXXXX).”
“Ok, I’m sorry.”
Communication?
Maybe.
“You hurt….” You get the idea right?
Either A, communication hasn’t occurred or B, the person doing the hurting doesn’t give a fuck. If they don’t give a fuck, we need to find out why and work that kink out. Is it a communication problem or something else? Is this retaliation from some pervious incident?
In ANY scenario, people need to talk. They need to express pain, hurt, reasons, etc. Everyone one needs to be heard. Everyone needs the catharsis. EVERYONE needs to be ready to dish it and take it.
It sucks ass sometimes, but it’s needed. If the group cannot withstand effective communication then it’s not strong enough to bare the weight of itself. Essentially, it will fail and people will get hurt.
If two people, lovers, friends, family cannot talk to each other, listen to each other and hear the good as well as the bad then they aren’t what they think they are. Lovers listen and take it. Friends fight and come back to each other. Family stands by you no matter what.
This doesn’t mean you get to shit on people. It doesn’t mean “It’s their problem and if they turn their backs on me then they don’t love me.”
What it means is that everyone, EVERYONE, has to take responsibility for what they say and do. They have to modify their behavior if that behavior consistently causes pain or stress to one or more of the group. If they don’t that person isn’t a part of the group and doesn’t have the group in mind. They only have themselves and if this is the case then they need to drop out.
(And remember, polyamory is a group of one on one interactions interplaying with one of two, two on one, three on one, etc, etc. In the end it’s the group, but you are a piece of the group.)
Friday, August 28, 2009
Mutual Satisfaction
What happens when you can’t agree?
Hmmm….
Depends.
Done with entry.
…
…
Okay, maybe there’s more to it than that, but it does depend.
Okay let’s make some folks up because I gotta make folks up or else somebody gets pissy. So this is safe and keeps my ass from hearing the nagging.
You, yeah you, that’s easy and Jessie are in disagreement. Let’s say You are the secondary and Jessie is the primary other, not your lover. ( I chose this because this is usually the most complicated scenario.)
Jessie has said no on a request. She’s said no a lot of times and you are fucking frustrated because Jessie is ALWAYS getting what she wants. Chris, your shared lover, hasn’t really stepped in at all, doesn’t want to, feels safer off in the corner. You are left on your own with Jessie. Jessie is pimping around because primaries get to that because they have all the power.
Um, okay…sure they do. Let me ask Jessie this. You get what you want all the time. You never let the secondary have anything. Chris gets mad and the secondary gets mad. Then what?
Maybe you’re okay with the mad, but are you okay when you don’t get to have your fun, when Chris starts saying no I don’t want you to do that? Becoming too irritable, when the mad starts getting in your way? What about needing something from the second? You think it’s going to happen again and again when you’re treating them like this? What about the strength of the entire fucking relationship? Do you not care?
Primaries have an illusion of absolute power. Some really, really need it to feel secure in the poly relationship. Some Primaries can’t really handle sharing, they may only be doing it as a quid pro quo, basically they want their cookies too and if they want to get them, they gotta let their primary partner have their own. Cookies may be lovers, maybe any thing.
What am I getting at?
There is no such thing as absolute power, not even in the D/s or kink formed poly relationship. There is no such thing unless the one who holds the power doesn’t give a damn about individual well being of those involved or the well being of the entire unit.
The key to ANY relationship, be it polyamorous, monogamous, business or family is….
MUTUAL SATISFACTION
That’s right kids, everybody has to be happy in order for any type of relationship to work. Accepting this concept will lead you to great rewards in your poly relationship, but it’s also going to lead you to the underlying concept of poly relationships…
NO ONE HAS ABSOLUTE POWER
Satisfaction pulls in all directions. It pulls at everyone involved and it forces compromise and indulgence at a constant rate to maintain the balance of mutual satisfaction. The tension may be loose or tight, it depends on everyone’s needs and how they interplay, but if you cannot grasp this one simple concept then kiss your relationship goodbye and dear primaries of the world…
STICK YOUR POWER GRAB UP YOUR ASS.
Really. That’s harsh. I know you’re insecure, but sugars of the world, everyone is insecure. Everyone has something to lose. Everyone is putting out to get anything in the relationship. Everybody has to understand this and stop treating poly like a combat sport.
Women need to leave the warfare behind or you’re never going to be happy.
That goes for you too, dudes. Men are just as whacked as women sometimes.
Do you get what I’m saying though? Mutual satisfaction requires compromise, indulgence and most of all, a communal spirit. For gods sake you’re sharing pussy and cock, how much more fucking communal can you get than that?
Basically in the scenario above Jessie has to think about why she is constantly denying. Is it for the good of the whole? Does it not work out because of time, finances or some other kind of resource? (If it’s these kinds of reason, make sure you make it known.)
Or is Jessie just being a bitch? Is she trying to get revenge for some long ago spite? (Did Jessie even communicate that past issue? Is everyone going WTF? because Jessie didn’t spill the beans?)
You know, we shouldn’t just pick on Jessie. We all need to ask ourselves these questions when the situation comes up. We also need to pay attention to what we’re doing. We need to be vigilant about our actions in case there is poor communication.
WHAT? I have to pay attention to them? Hell no!!!!!
I’m not asking you to go overboard and take notes and hold personal committees on what others may say or feel, but I am asking that you pay attention to their responses, look for patterns, look for signs of problems, etc.
I am NOT asking to assume what those things mean, but to talk when you notice something amiss. Yeah, I know, you know, but you don’t really know it as well as you think. I don’t. Nobody does because we have interference called egos, life, friends, family, jobs and a lot of other noise that gets in the way.
I’m not trying to put anyone down or say they can’t do this. I am saying that we must be aware and in the routines of our days that awareness can become disconnected. In the end though we have to remember what makes a poly relationship successful.
Group Communication.
The Group Goal of Success.
And the concept of…
Mutual Satisfaction.
You’ll need to break down what these things mean. Get a detail of the overall picture because poly is too complicated for an overview to take care of it all. You need to dive in, smiling, happy, wide eyed and ready to play.
It’s work, but it’s all fun. Think about it? More love, more sex, more emotional support, maybe more financial support, a sense of family, a sense of having someone on your team!
Who’s got your back?!?! Who’s on your side?!?!?!
They are. You all are, if you play by the rules and remember Mutual Satisfaction.
© 2009
Hmmm….
Depends.
Done with entry.
…
…
Okay, maybe there’s more to it than that, but it does depend.
Okay let’s make some folks up because I gotta make folks up or else somebody gets pissy. So this is safe and keeps my ass from hearing the nagging.
You, yeah you, that’s easy and Jessie are in disagreement. Let’s say You are the secondary and Jessie is the primary other, not your lover. ( I chose this because this is usually the most complicated scenario.)
Jessie has said no on a request. She’s said no a lot of times and you are fucking frustrated because Jessie is ALWAYS getting what she wants. Chris, your shared lover, hasn’t really stepped in at all, doesn’t want to, feels safer off in the corner. You are left on your own with Jessie. Jessie is pimping around because primaries get to that because they have all the power.
Um, okay…sure they do. Let me ask Jessie this. You get what you want all the time. You never let the secondary have anything. Chris gets mad and the secondary gets mad. Then what?
Maybe you’re okay with the mad, but are you okay when you don’t get to have your fun, when Chris starts saying no I don’t want you to do that? Becoming too irritable, when the mad starts getting in your way? What about needing something from the second? You think it’s going to happen again and again when you’re treating them like this? What about the strength of the entire fucking relationship? Do you not care?
Primaries have an illusion of absolute power. Some really, really need it to feel secure in the poly relationship. Some Primaries can’t really handle sharing, they may only be doing it as a quid pro quo, basically they want their cookies too and if they want to get them, they gotta let their primary partner have their own. Cookies may be lovers, maybe any thing.
What am I getting at?
There is no such thing as absolute power, not even in the D/s or kink formed poly relationship. There is no such thing unless the one who holds the power doesn’t give a damn about individual well being of those involved or the well being of the entire unit.
The key to ANY relationship, be it polyamorous, monogamous, business or family is….
MUTUAL SATISFACTION
That’s right kids, everybody has to be happy in order for any type of relationship to work. Accepting this concept will lead you to great rewards in your poly relationship, but it’s also going to lead you to the underlying concept of poly relationships…
NO ONE HAS ABSOLUTE POWER
Satisfaction pulls in all directions. It pulls at everyone involved and it forces compromise and indulgence at a constant rate to maintain the balance of mutual satisfaction. The tension may be loose or tight, it depends on everyone’s needs and how they interplay, but if you cannot grasp this one simple concept then kiss your relationship goodbye and dear primaries of the world…
STICK YOUR POWER GRAB UP YOUR ASS.
Really. That’s harsh. I know you’re insecure, but sugars of the world, everyone is insecure. Everyone has something to lose. Everyone is putting out to get anything in the relationship. Everybody has to understand this and stop treating poly like a combat sport.
Women need to leave the warfare behind or you’re never going to be happy.
That goes for you too, dudes. Men are just as whacked as women sometimes.
Do you get what I’m saying though? Mutual satisfaction requires compromise, indulgence and most of all, a communal spirit. For gods sake you’re sharing pussy and cock, how much more fucking communal can you get than that?
Basically in the scenario above Jessie has to think about why she is constantly denying. Is it for the good of the whole? Does it not work out because of time, finances or some other kind of resource? (If it’s these kinds of reason, make sure you make it known.)
Or is Jessie just being a bitch? Is she trying to get revenge for some long ago spite? (Did Jessie even communicate that past issue? Is everyone going WTF? because Jessie didn’t spill the beans?)
You know, we shouldn’t just pick on Jessie. We all need to ask ourselves these questions when the situation comes up. We also need to pay attention to what we’re doing. We need to be vigilant about our actions in case there is poor communication.
WHAT? I have to pay attention to them? Hell no!!!!!
I’m not asking you to go overboard and take notes and hold personal committees on what others may say or feel, but I am asking that you pay attention to their responses, look for patterns, look for signs of problems, etc.
I am NOT asking to assume what those things mean, but to talk when you notice something amiss. Yeah, I know, you know, but you don’t really know it as well as you think. I don’t. Nobody does because we have interference called egos, life, friends, family, jobs and a lot of other noise that gets in the way.
I’m not trying to put anyone down or say they can’t do this. I am saying that we must be aware and in the routines of our days that awareness can become disconnected. In the end though we have to remember what makes a poly relationship successful.
Group Communication.
The Group Goal of Success.
And the concept of…
Mutual Satisfaction.
You’ll need to break down what these things mean. Get a detail of the overall picture because poly is too complicated for an overview to take care of it all. You need to dive in, smiling, happy, wide eyed and ready to play.
It’s work, but it’s all fun. Think about it? More love, more sex, more emotional support, maybe more financial support, a sense of family, a sense of having someone on your team!
Who’s got your back?!?! Who’s on your side?!?!?!
They are. You all are, if you play by the rules and remember Mutual Satisfaction.
© 2009
Friday, August 14, 2009
Best.....Links and Stuff
The Best of 2005
Hey again! I’ve been getting a lot of comments recently and thanks so much for them by the way. I don’t get paid to do this and comments are pretty much all I get for it. Anyway, one commenter (Potgrrl) asked for links for newbies.
I thought about that, thinking there are archives on the side, but then I thought not all of them pertain to others. Some of them are just me talking about my latest…uh whatevers. ( I really don’t remember.)
Anyways, I decided to do a page of links, but there are a few years to shuffle through so this page is a “best of” for 2005. Most of them have something in them for the community at large. They also have a lot of grammatical errors. I’m really going to have to take care of that one of these days…….
So, they are listed by month and I will post a few of these and end it with a super best of one of these days and maybe take some time to create a link to that….oh where does the time go? On, I suppose…..
Again, thanks for all the support and Mark is your aka your BlogSpot? I guess it would be easy for me to find out if I just checked. *smiles*
August 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/suddenly-poly.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/coming-out-brief-look.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/life-compartments-and-limited-love.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/part-time-love.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/are-you-poly-material.html
September 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/exclusion-from-within.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/quality-vs-quantity.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/language-barriers.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/as-long-as-it-takes.html
October 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/lost-in-translation-or-if-i-had-known.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/all-this-poly-stuff.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/poly-sensibilities.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/intimate-words.html
November 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/11/communication-breakdown.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/11/i-am-who-i-am.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/11/again-and-again-and-again.html
December 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/fuck-yes-t-shirt-no.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/poly-specifics-or-specifically.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/inside-or-out.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/closer.html
Hey again! I’ve been getting a lot of comments recently and thanks so much for them by the way. I don’t get paid to do this and comments are pretty much all I get for it. Anyway, one commenter (Potgrrl) asked for links for newbies.
I thought about that, thinking there are archives on the side, but then I thought not all of them pertain to others. Some of them are just me talking about my latest…uh whatevers. ( I really don’t remember.)
Anyways, I decided to do a page of links, but there are a few years to shuffle through so this page is a “best of” for 2005. Most of them have something in them for the community at large. They also have a lot of grammatical errors. I’m really going to have to take care of that one of these days…….
So, they are listed by month and I will post a few of these and end it with a super best of one of these days and maybe take some time to create a link to that….oh where does the time go? On, I suppose…..
Again, thanks for all the support and Mark is your aka your BlogSpot? I guess it would be easy for me to find out if I just checked. *smiles*
August 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/suddenly-poly.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/coming-out-brief-look.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/life-compartments-and-limited-love.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/part-time-love.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/08/are-you-poly-material.html
September 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/exclusion-from-within.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/quality-vs-quantity.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/language-barriers.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/09/as-long-as-it-takes.html
October 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/lost-in-translation-or-if-i-had-known.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/all-this-poly-stuff.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/poly-sensibilities.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/10/intimate-words.html
November 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/11/communication-breakdown.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/11/i-am-who-i-am.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/11/again-and-again-and-again.html
December 2005
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/fuck-yes-t-shirt-no.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/poly-specifics-or-specifically.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/inside-or-out.html
http://polygrrl.blogspot.com/2005/12/closer.html
Thursday, August 13, 2009
Had I.......
I try to think back to the first days and what I needed back then. I needed to feel safe. I didn’t feel safe because I felt as if I were being judged for every little thing I did. I felt insecure in my smiles, what I offered, and who I was supposed to be. I felt as if there was a place holder for me, but what shape I would take remained to be seen.
A part of that insecurity was lack of communication. At the onset, Kay and I were kept apart. I think now that was because Kay was having a much harder time with the polyamory than I’d realized. I think later I would see that though, Kay may have been honest with Wayne, she wasn’t honest with me. At some point I think we forged a bond, but I can’t ever say it was truly a strong one. There was compersion….I remember getting to the point of having that.
Is that anyone’s fault? Not really.
Kay and Wayne were falling a part. She was already speaking of leaving him. I should have known, but I was desperate for them to make it work. I can’t say why really other than I knew that it would kill Wayne not to have his family. I’m not saying the idea didn’t hurt KaY, but the truth of the matter my loyalty was first to him before it was to her. It had to be. It was the structure of our relationship.
I had guilt in that for a long, long time. I see now that it was silly to have ever felt that way.
So, in the beginning things were hard. We had many, many, breakthroughs in the middle of feeling like everything was going to fall a part. I think a lot of people start this and think it will be easy or it will be fine. They say I know what I should be doing or what I want to be done not really understanding that each partner brings about different circumstances.
We can never use the same playbook. We can get a better idea of where to start, but we can’t mimic the past because there is always something different, including you. You are not the same as you were ten years ago…not even as you were a year ago.
I’ve been thinking if I had to do it all over again what would I change? What would I need to make it easier on me?
1) I would be more honest. I would bite the bullet and take the hits of my honesty.
I trained everyone into an expectation of my behaviour. When I was ready to break fee of it, it was hard and I had to blast my way out of it. Everyone had to relearn how to deal with me as I had to learn to deal with everyone else.
It’s easy to say all of this in retrospect. I had no idea what I wanted from the relationship back then. I had no idea of what even needed. But I needed to be more honest with myself and with everyone around me.
2) I would ask for more.
I never asked for much at first. I was happy for any little morsel I received. I cherished every second I got. I loved and adored the time I had with Wayne, but I never had enough. I spent a lot of lonely nights crying. I took in a lot of pain simply because I wouldn’t ask for more. I was so afraid of being judged for wanting more and more afraid of being denied.
3) I would accept denial and criticism as part of the growing process.
This is very hard. Above I mentioned fear of denial. I thought if I was denied once then I would be denied again and again and again. I assumed far too much without asking. You cannot know anything without communication. Without knowing you create your own hell then start blaming others for your own thoughts. That’s all YOU, no one else and YOU are the one being unfair to those around you.
Criticism is hard to take, but we all need it from time to time. It takes strength to withstand it and if you have none of it , it takes the desire for a successful relationship to get past it.
We are all imperfect. We are all pieces of an imperfect puzzle. Perfection varies. We do not have to fit perfectly together to work. There is no real perfect, in the sense that a relationship is happy, shiny and wonderful without work.
It takes work, a lot of mother fucking hard work and a lot of mother fucking hurt feelings, harsh words and pain to get to the point where realistic perfection is obtained.
I know I make it sound like a romp through hell when all it might be is a really big BBQ. I’m not telling you that it’s going to be absolutely shitful, but I am telling you that everyone involved needs to lower the expectations of progress and happiness because we tend to expect too much too soon in poly.
4) If I were to go into it today, I would change my expectations.
How you know what to expect? Expectations can be high and low. Mine were very high. Because I was told that a married couple had talked it over and did their research and decided to be poly, I thought I would just walk in and everything would be okay. (In terms of how she felt.)
It wasn’t.
Have I ever told you that the first time I met Kay faced to face she screamed at me, told me I wasn’t pretty, and a bunch of other horrible things? Did I ever tell you I stormed out of their house in tears? That I parked and cried and cried because I knew I loved Wayne, but I thought she hated me so much that it would never work?
Apparently I went back, that same day, within fifteen minutes. I decided that she was far more angry at the situation than at me. I decided that the only way to make this work was to stand up to the tempest. I put on a fucking raincoat and we spent the day taking action to make things better.
It was hard. I still cringe when I think about it.
It wasn’t what I expected and that day changed my expectations for the worse. I never heard Wayne’s phone ring without worrying that something was wrong. I don’t know how long it took before having Margo call didn’t send me into emotional worry.
I never told her that. I don’t know why. (Fear?)
What I’m getting at is expectations can be good and bad and can lead to both god and bad. Maybe if you remove the word expectation and replace it with assume your bulb will go off because we all know we should never assume anything about anyone until we talk it out.
5) Communicate more, ah the classic.
I think I tried to communicate to the best of my ability. I think we all did. What got in the way was fear. Fear gets in the way of everything. It can change our wording, let things slide, get something ignored. Anything that is does is bad when it leads to poor communication.
But you know what the hell is communication?
Let’s think about that…
Is communication me saying something to you and you hearing it? Or is it me saying something and you understanding it? If you say you understand something I’m trying to convey, can we be sure about it?
I can tell you right now that hearing it isn’t enough. Some of you are going to read this entry and not understand what the fuck I’m talking about. Some of you will think you got it and do the exact opposite. I’ll never know because we’ll never interact. How will you know if you’re communicating well? The best we can do is for the person you’re talking to come back at you with what you said.
That’s right, repeat in their own words what they think you’ve said.
A-N-N-O-Y-I-N-G but needed in circumstances where people don’t communicate well.
Fuck I’ve seen it in action. I’ve even seen someone repeat what was said and the two leave thinking they were understood. I think the person doing the original communicating forgot that they had to listen to and not assume that what was being repeated was correct.
But communication is more than just the concept of speaking and being understood. It’s telling everything that needs to be told.
I may be angry at you and tell you that I am, but maybe I never tell you why I am hurt or why it affects me so deeply. Maybe I left out that a week ago you did the same thing and a week before that you had done it again. I may forget to tell the breadth of your actions, the depth of my pain and the full reason behind it.
Why?
I may not understand it myself. I may not want to start too much trouble. I may think I can’t bring it up because it was so far in the past. I may simply be afraid…
Fear, we have to look at what we’re afraid of. It never goes away until we confront it.
Oh and there’s body language…
Fuck.
Communication is hard. Really fucking hard. It’s why we come back to it again and again and again because it’s such a complicated act and we put too little effort in it and take for granted that it’s simple. It’s not. You’re not. I’m not. We need to work on it.
So, that’s just a short hint of what I’d do if I were to start it all over again. I think I will come back to this concept again and see how things have changed from initial response to the retrospective response.
Anyway, hoping all is well and that you are living large and lovin like only you can.
A part of that insecurity was lack of communication. At the onset, Kay and I were kept apart. I think now that was because Kay was having a much harder time with the polyamory than I’d realized. I think later I would see that though, Kay may have been honest with Wayne, she wasn’t honest with me. At some point I think we forged a bond, but I can’t ever say it was truly a strong one. There was compersion….I remember getting to the point of having that.
Is that anyone’s fault? Not really.
Kay and Wayne were falling a part. She was already speaking of leaving him. I should have known, but I was desperate for them to make it work. I can’t say why really other than I knew that it would kill Wayne not to have his family. I’m not saying the idea didn’t hurt KaY, but the truth of the matter my loyalty was first to him before it was to her. It had to be. It was the structure of our relationship.
I had guilt in that for a long, long time. I see now that it was silly to have ever felt that way.
So, in the beginning things were hard. We had many, many, breakthroughs in the middle of feeling like everything was going to fall a part. I think a lot of people start this and think it will be easy or it will be fine. They say I know what I should be doing or what I want to be done not really understanding that each partner brings about different circumstances.
We can never use the same playbook. We can get a better idea of where to start, but we can’t mimic the past because there is always something different, including you. You are not the same as you were ten years ago…not even as you were a year ago.
I’ve been thinking if I had to do it all over again what would I change? What would I need to make it easier on me?
1) I would be more honest. I would bite the bullet and take the hits of my honesty.
I trained everyone into an expectation of my behaviour. When I was ready to break fee of it, it was hard and I had to blast my way out of it. Everyone had to relearn how to deal with me as I had to learn to deal with everyone else.
It’s easy to say all of this in retrospect. I had no idea what I wanted from the relationship back then. I had no idea of what even needed. But I needed to be more honest with myself and with everyone around me.
2) I would ask for more.
I never asked for much at first. I was happy for any little morsel I received. I cherished every second I got. I loved and adored the time I had with Wayne, but I never had enough. I spent a lot of lonely nights crying. I took in a lot of pain simply because I wouldn’t ask for more. I was so afraid of being judged for wanting more and more afraid of being denied.
3) I would accept denial and criticism as part of the growing process.
This is very hard. Above I mentioned fear of denial. I thought if I was denied once then I would be denied again and again and again. I assumed far too much without asking. You cannot know anything without communication. Without knowing you create your own hell then start blaming others for your own thoughts. That’s all YOU, no one else and YOU are the one being unfair to those around you.
Criticism is hard to take, but we all need it from time to time. It takes strength to withstand it and if you have none of it , it takes the desire for a successful relationship to get past it.
We are all imperfect. We are all pieces of an imperfect puzzle. Perfection varies. We do not have to fit perfectly together to work. There is no real perfect, in the sense that a relationship is happy, shiny and wonderful without work.
It takes work, a lot of mother fucking hard work and a lot of mother fucking hurt feelings, harsh words and pain to get to the point where realistic perfection is obtained.
I know I make it sound like a romp through hell when all it might be is a really big BBQ. I’m not telling you that it’s going to be absolutely shitful, but I am telling you that everyone involved needs to lower the expectations of progress and happiness because we tend to expect too much too soon in poly.
4) If I were to go into it today, I would change my expectations.
How you know what to expect? Expectations can be high and low. Mine were very high. Because I was told that a married couple had talked it over and did their research and decided to be poly, I thought I would just walk in and everything would be okay. (In terms of how she felt.)
It wasn’t.
Have I ever told you that the first time I met Kay faced to face she screamed at me, told me I wasn’t pretty, and a bunch of other horrible things? Did I ever tell you I stormed out of their house in tears? That I parked and cried and cried because I knew I loved Wayne, but I thought she hated me so much that it would never work?
Apparently I went back, that same day, within fifteen minutes. I decided that she was far more angry at the situation than at me. I decided that the only way to make this work was to stand up to the tempest. I put on a fucking raincoat and we spent the day taking action to make things better.
It was hard. I still cringe when I think about it.
It wasn’t what I expected and that day changed my expectations for the worse. I never heard Wayne’s phone ring without worrying that something was wrong. I don’t know how long it took before having Margo call didn’t send me into emotional worry.
I never told her that. I don’t know why. (Fear?)
What I’m getting at is expectations can be good and bad and can lead to both god and bad. Maybe if you remove the word expectation and replace it with assume your bulb will go off because we all know we should never assume anything about anyone until we talk it out.
5) Communicate more, ah the classic.
I think I tried to communicate to the best of my ability. I think we all did. What got in the way was fear. Fear gets in the way of everything. It can change our wording, let things slide, get something ignored. Anything that is does is bad when it leads to poor communication.
But you know what the hell is communication?
Let’s think about that…
Is communication me saying something to you and you hearing it? Or is it me saying something and you understanding it? If you say you understand something I’m trying to convey, can we be sure about it?
I can tell you right now that hearing it isn’t enough. Some of you are going to read this entry and not understand what the fuck I’m talking about. Some of you will think you got it and do the exact opposite. I’ll never know because we’ll never interact. How will you know if you’re communicating well? The best we can do is for the person you’re talking to come back at you with what you said.
That’s right, repeat in their own words what they think you’ve said.
A-N-N-O-Y-I-N-G but needed in circumstances where people don’t communicate well.
Fuck I’ve seen it in action. I’ve even seen someone repeat what was said and the two leave thinking they were understood. I think the person doing the original communicating forgot that they had to listen to and not assume that what was being repeated was correct.
But communication is more than just the concept of speaking and being understood. It’s telling everything that needs to be told.
I may be angry at you and tell you that I am, but maybe I never tell you why I am hurt or why it affects me so deeply. Maybe I left out that a week ago you did the same thing and a week before that you had done it again. I may forget to tell the breadth of your actions, the depth of my pain and the full reason behind it.
Why?
I may not understand it myself. I may not want to start too much trouble. I may think I can’t bring it up because it was so far in the past. I may simply be afraid…
Fear, we have to look at what we’re afraid of. It never goes away until we confront it.
Oh and there’s body language…
Fuck.
Communication is hard. Really fucking hard. It’s why we come back to it again and again and again because it’s such a complicated act and we put too little effort in it and take for granted that it’s simple. It’s not. You’re not. I’m not. We need to work on it.
So, that’s just a short hint of what I’d do if I were to start it all over again. I think I will come back to this concept again and see how things have changed from initial response to the retrospective response.
Anyway, hoping all is well and that you are living large and lovin like only you can.
Tuesday, July 21, 2009
Jealousy and Other News
“I couldn’t be poly because I get jealous. I’m so amazed that you can do that.”
I smiled. “I do get jealous.”
My friend seemed shocked that jealousy occurs in polyamory. She is one of the few people who know about me and my lifestyle and all this time she thought I was of some higher form of being. Not get jealous? Really?
It amazes me that many people seem to think that not getting jealous is a requirement of polyamory. It’s not. Successful poly isn’t about repressing emotion, but learning to deal with them in a healthy manner. That more than anything brings us to a higher plane of being.
But anyone can learn to deal with life better than how they are right now.
Recent months has seen my life change a lot. There have been some major, major things afoot and some minor ones to boot. Polyamory has been the last thing on the list and so has this blog.
One, the major thing about this blog has seriously changed.
Me.
I have written a post for this blog several times wanting to explain the major changes in my life. I worried again and again how it would come across, how would you perceive it and would you listen to me afterward. You know I once told someone or tried to tell someone covertly that they didn’t need to carry the Poly flag, that they should let the relationship go and move on. Stop trying to save something you can’t.
They didn’t listen because they couldn’t hear or see. They were too caught up in their own world to look outside themselves. This is often the case in times of stress.
Anyway, so the big news? You guessed it. John and I are a twosome. Kate and he divorced and she is off with Sluggo... whatever the hell was I calling him? It’s been in the works for ages. Wayne finally moved in with me last year. It was a trial by fire and in the end it’s working out for the best because no one should keep something going that needs to end. It’s not healthy for anyone. It just causes more pain and more pain in one’s life is not needed.
One day, when I’m ready, I might post those several entries I didn’t post about this subject. I just wanted you to know that we’re living monogamously at the moment, but plan to remain poly.
So, I’ll be a second become primary. I hope that makes me a really, really good primary. I hope so because I’ll know what it’s like to enter into an established household.
So back to this jealousy thing.
I told my friend that jealousy happens all of the time. It’s a given. I told her you can’t control how you feel about things. Jealousy occurs out of no where and can be very strong at times. The key difference is that poly folk know that their lovers have someone else. So there is no betrayal involved, at least not in the cheating sense.
But there can be a sense of territory over say, a certain restaurant, a special way of doing something. I recall a certain sexual toy being reserved for just one of us, but not the other. (Not a vibe so get your bio-germ selves out of a hissy of “Of Course”).
The latter was easy to deal with. It was negotiated that the toy was meant for one person and no one else. It’s the surprises that catch you off guard and can cause a lot of drama in the household.
I know of a friend who loved a particular restaurant. She went there all of the time with her lover. Then one day they stopped going. She just got tired of it. Months passed and this woman and her lover hadn’t gone in over a year. The lover took another woman to that same restaurant. My friend threw a fit of epic proportions. “That’s our place!!!!!!!” There was this big fight, a what-to-do-pow-wow and finally it all got settled.
Funny thing about that, is that my friend has yet to go back to that restaurant. She’s still bored with it and now she thinks she’s silly for her reaction, but at the time it seemed legitimate.
All jealousy seems legitimate and reasonable at the time. It really fucking does.
In terms of monogamy, we can possibly get jealous and move on. It may not be right to do so, but the monogamous couple only has each other in mind. Poly is different. We have to look at all involved as fairly as we can and those of us having the jealous reaction really have to ask why and was it a knee-jerk reaction that we can get over? I mean should my friend bar her lover from ever gong to that restaurant with someone else? Is that really fair? Is that where she wants to lay down her gauntlet?
What’s worth fighting over? What’s worth digging in our heels for?
Some of the things we fight over are petty. Some are not. I think we all have to think hard as to what is and isn’t worth creating chaos in the house for. Are those feelings really worth it? And probably the real question is this:
What is the real problem?
I don’t think my friend was really worried about the restaurant. She may have been worried that her lover was getting closer to his new girl. Her insecurity surfaced from the restaurant deal, but my guesses are they would have surfaced somewhere else.
My friend took the time to think about her reaction. Her lover took the time to listen and not ridicule her feelings. (He thought it was stupid of her.) The two of them communicated then the three of them communicated and it worked out.
So the next time something happens think beyond the incident, think beyond the surface. Jealousy usually has more depth that which movie was seen or which restaurant was gone too.
P.S. If you want to ask me anything about anything, just e-mail me.
I smiled. “I do get jealous.”
My friend seemed shocked that jealousy occurs in polyamory. She is one of the few people who know about me and my lifestyle and all this time she thought I was of some higher form of being. Not get jealous? Really?
It amazes me that many people seem to think that not getting jealous is a requirement of polyamory. It’s not. Successful poly isn’t about repressing emotion, but learning to deal with them in a healthy manner. That more than anything brings us to a higher plane of being.
But anyone can learn to deal with life better than how they are right now.
Recent months has seen my life change a lot. There have been some major, major things afoot and some minor ones to boot. Polyamory has been the last thing on the list and so has this blog.
One, the major thing about this blog has seriously changed.
Me.
I have written a post for this blog several times wanting to explain the major changes in my life. I worried again and again how it would come across, how would you perceive it and would you listen to me afterward. You know I once told someone or tried to tell someone covertly that they didn’t need to carry the Poly flag, that they should let the relationship go and move on. Stop trying to save something you can’t.
They didn’t listen because they couldn’t hear or see. They were too caught up in their own world to look outside themselves. This is often the case in times of stress.
Anyway, so the big news? You guessed it. John and I are a twosome. Kate and he divorced and she is off with Sluggo... whatever the hell was I calling him? It’s been in the works for ages. Wayne finally moved in with me last year. It was a trial by fire and in the end it’s working out for the best because no one should keep something going that needs to end. It’s not healthy for anyone. It just causes more pain and more pain in one’s life is not needed.
One day, when I’m ready, I might post those several entries I didn’t post about this subject. I just wanted you to know that we’re living monogamously at the moment, but plan to remain poly.
So, I’ll be a second become primary. I hope that makes me a really, really good primary. I hope so because I’ll know what it’s like to enter into an established household.
So back to this jealousy thing.
I told my friend that jealousy happens all of the time. It’s a given. I told her you can’t control how you feel about things. Jealousy occurs out of no where and can be very strong at times. The key difference is that poly folk know that their lovers have someone else. So there is no betrayal involved, at least not in the cheating sense.
But there can be a sense of territory over say, a certain restaurant, a special way of doing something. I recall a certain sexual toy being reserved for just one of us, but not the other. (Not a vibe so get your bio-germ selves out of a hissy of “Of Course”).
The latter was easy to deal with. It was negotiated that the toy was meant for one person and no one else. It’s the surprises that catch you off guard and can cause a lot of drama in the household.
I know of a friend who loved a particular restaurant. She went there all of the time with her lover. Then one day they stopped going. She just got tired of it. Months passed and this woman and her lover hadn’t gone in over a year. The lover took another woman to that same restaurant. My friend threw a fit of epic proportions. “That’s our place!!!!!!!” There was this big fight, a what-to-do-pow-wow and finally it all got settled.
Funny thing about that, is that my friend has yet to go back to that restaurant. She’s still bored with it and now she thinks she’s silly for her reaction, but at the time it seemed legitimate.
All jealousy seems legitimate and reasonable at the time. It really fucking does.
In terms of monogamy, we can possibly get jealous and move on. It may not be right to do so, but the monogamous couple only has each other in mind. Poly is different. We have to look at all involved as fairly as we can and those of us having the jealous reaction really have to ask why and was it a knee-jerk reaction that we can get over? I mean should my friend bar her lover from ever gong to that restaurant with someone else? Is that really fair? Is that where she wants to lay down her gauntlet?
What’s worth fighting over? What’s worth digging in our heels for?
Some of the things we fight over are petty. Some are not. I think we all have to think hard as to what is and isn’t worth creating chaos in the house for. Are those feelings really worth it? And probably the real question is this:
What is the real problem?
I don’t think my friend was really worried about the restaurant. She may have been worried that her lover was getting closer to his new girl. Her insecurity surfaced from the restaurant deal, but my guesses are they would have surfaced somewhere else.
My friend took the time to think about her reaction. Her lover took the time to listen and not ridicule her feelings. (He thought it was stupid of her.) The two of them communicated then the three of them communicated and it worked out.
So the next time something happens think beyond the incident, think beyond the surface. Jealousy usually has more depth that which movie was seen or which restaurant was gone too.
P.S. If you want to ask me anything about anything, just e-mail me.
Thursday, February 26, 2009
A Quickie Nothing Update
Wow, I just came by to check things out and realized that I haven’t written a single post for 2009. It’s almost March and shit…You’d think I’d have something to say to start of the new year.
I guess at this point it’s more like crawling into the new year.
There hasn’t been much going on, not lately. Though really, there have been some major life changes. I wrote about it when it initially occurred, but some interested parties did not like it. So, that original post lasted “on air” for about 4 hours. Since then, I’ve been going over how to say what I want, get my feelings across,what I want, etc.
I find that complete honesty will be hard. What I have to say some don’t want to hear. Maybe you don’t want to hear it either, but I know interested parties won’t want to. So, I’ve written umm……a few versions and each has been tossed into the can.
Funny how honesty isn’t always easy. Not even delving into poly and forcing yourself and others involved to choke it down seems to make it any easier.
Anyway, that’s were I am. Caught in a “Should I or shouldn’t I?” kind of thing. Or maybe it’s not a matter of should, but how?
I don’t know. It’s so hard to say and maybe all of this means I’m just not ready to talk about things and maybe the things I need to talk about aren’t ready either.
Maybe I’m making things way tooooooo complicated.
Yeah, maybe. I don’t care at the moment, though. I just know life is so much better than it has been. My world is getting brighter, things are changing for the best, everyone involved seems to be happier than they once were. It just took a couple of steps to make it so.
Hmmm, maybe I’m making you wonder. Hell, I know I am. All this can be the great mystery of the year. You know, you probably already know. You just don’t want to say you know because there’s this little, itty, bitty, part of you saying, “Nah, that’s not it.”
You might be right.
It may not be it.
That’s all I got to say for now, a lot of nothing. I will get back to you on all the changes, the mysteries, the better than whats and keep on keeping on. I hope all is well in your poly worlds and that you understand that sometimes to be happy, you have to make some hard choices.
Love ya!!!!
I guess at this point it’s more like crawling into the new year.
There hasn’t been much going on, not lately. Though really, there have been some major life changes. I wrote about it when it initially occurred, but some interested parties did not like it. So, that original post lasted “on air” for about 4 hours. Since then, I’ve been going over how to say what I want, get my feelings across,what I want, etc.
I find that complete honesty will be hard. What I have to say some don’t want to hear. Maybe you don’t want to hear it either, but I know interested parties won’t want to. So, I’ve written umm……a few versions and each has been tossed into the can.
Funny how honesty isn’t always easy. Not even delving into poly and forcing yourself and others involved to choke it down seems to make it any easier.
Anyway, that’s were I am. Caught in a “Should I or shouldn’t I?” kind of thing. Or maybe it’s not a matter of should, but how?
I don’t know. It’s so hard to say and maybe all of this means I’m just not ready to talk about things and maybe the things I need to talk about aren’t ready either.
Maybe I’m making things way tooooooo complicated.
Yeah, maybe. I don’t care at the moment, though. I just know life is so much better than it has been. My world is getting brighter, things are changing for the best, everyone involved seems to be happier than they once were. It just took a couple of steps to make it so.
Hmmm, maybe I’m making you wonder. Hell, I know I am. All this can be the great mystery of the year. You know, you probably already know. You just don’t want to say you know because there’s this little, itty, bitty, part of you saying, “Nah, that’s not it.”
You might be right.
It may not be it.
That’s all I got to say for now, a lot of nothing. I will get back to you on all the changes, the mysteries, the better than whats and keep on keeping on. I hope all is well in your poly worlds and that you understand that sometimes to be happy, you have to make some hard choices.
Love ya!!!!
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